Yuli Kosharovsky’s Interview with Lev Petrovich Ovsischer. Jerusalem, on February 11, 2004.

We are at Lev Petrovich’s apartment in Gilo, a neighborhood in Jerusalem, talking about the deeds of days long gone.

Yuli: Where and when were you born?

Lev: In a place called Bogushevsk, a train station in the Vitebsk region. The official date was December 14th, 1919, but actually I was born in February and I don’t know the exact day because it was not a custom in our family to celebrate birthdays.

Y: Did your family have many children?

L: There were four of us – my older brother and two younger sisters.

Y: Was your family religious?

L: I remember that there was a synagogue in our town, and my father used to go there often, and sometimes he took me with him…

Y: Were you taught anything Jewish?

L: There was no Heder in our town, there was one in our district center. I was sent there for the winter, when I was already 5 years old. My grandfather and grandmother lived there. For one [semester] I went to the Heder.

Y: Did you finish school in Bogushevsk?

L: It was a 7 year school. After finishing this school I went to a railway school in Vitebsk, 40 km from where we lived, and there I finally got a diploma for 10 years’ education. It was in 1934.

Y: Did you in any way experience the repressions of 1937?

L: Frankly speaking, we really believed what we were told. I was then, I hate to admit it, a communist.

Y: Why do you hate to admit it?

L: Today I think that it was a sin. Communists were deceived in their very core idea. After finishing secondary school I moved to Moscow. I dreamed of aviation. At first I applied to the MAI [Moscow Aviation Institute], but I lacked one recommendation (one party official who promised it to me, in the end didn’t give it to me, L.O.). I submitted my papers to the Bauman Institute, and of course, failed because my score was not high enough. But that score was good enough to enter the Evening Study Department of the Institute of the Commercial Aviation, and there I worked and studied until I was drafted in 1940. The evening departments of universities did not exempt you from the draft. I was sent to serve at an aerodrome, and two months later I was sent to a flight school in Chkalov, former Orenburg. When the war began I was already finishing that institute as a flight navigator. I graduated without taking the State Exams. I was a party member, and at that time they introduced a position of a unit commissar into the army, and I was appointed a commissar. But of course I flew a lot.

How did my national identity awaken? Imagine – 7 navigators, including myself, are named as candidates to receive a reward. 6 receive the reward and I don’t. I haven’t done anything wrong, I had the same number of flights as the others, but did not get the reward. There was another case, near Stalingrad. We often dropped leaflets to the German trenches. Once they brought a whole truck full of leaflets. I seriously studied German at that time and knew it quite well. I read that leaflet to my peers, and one mayor complained that when the leaflets are read over the megaphone at our forward area, only the first German trenches hear it. And here I blurted – “let’s install the equipment on the plane”. The representative of the front’s military council, who was present, liked the idea. On the next day I was summoned to the division commander and he tells me: “You are ordered to go to the front’s political HQ where you’ll receive your instructions. There are orders from the front commander Rokossovski to install a sound installation on your plane”. We tested the system for a week, but it was heard well only from the altitude of 1,000 m. When we climbed higher it was not heard well enough. So we climbed to 1,000 m, and moved in circles with silent engines. At the end of the broadcast the altitude dropped to 250-300 m. I did more than 20 flights in that way. The first broadcast was above General Paulus’s command post. He later admitted that he heard the capitulation conditions from an air truce envoy. Rokossovski told me twice “You will be personally commended and rewarded”. They did not recognize me as a Jew. In the army it was already known that of all the Jews put forward for a decoration, every third Jew was removed from the list. Zhukov admitted that after the war. If there was an Ivanov or a Petrov in my place he could have received the ‘Hero of the Soviet Union’ award for these flights. Our whole story was hushed up.

Y: You were a good communist, so the [Jewish] national problem, back then, didn’t interest you at all?

L: No, it did not interest me.

Y: Lev Petrovich, where and in what rank were you when the war ended?

L: Near Berlin, as captain.

Y: And when did you become colonel?

L: After graduating from the military academy I received the rank of mayor, and then…

Y: Did you study at the academy?

L: One day the HQ commander fell ill, and I was asked to serve as acting commander. There was an HQ division drill and Rudenko, who was the Marshall of the Aviation, was heading the division drill. After the drill he noted that I was the best of the class. He later asked the division commander whether I finished the [military] Academy. The division commander said that I only finished the flight school. Then Rudenko recommended that I be definitely sent to the Academy. At that time Stalin’s order was issued, to demobilize first all those who were drafted from colleges. I immediately wrote a report and was demobilized. And when I came to Moscow, the order to enroll me at the academy had been already signed, and so I entered the Academy.

Y: And where did you first meet Naum Olshanski and Yefim Davidowitz?

L: When I decided that I will no longer stay in this country.

Y: And when did you decide that?

L: After the Leningrad trials. I thought then – Well these are heroes. And even though I was a pilot, I didn’t have enough courage to make that move.

Y: What did you feel about the Six Day war, and at the time of the campaign against rootless cosmopolites?

L: When the State of Israel was proclaimed, I was studying at the Academy. Suddenly a speaker of the CPSU Central Committee arrived, with a report on the class essence of the cosmopolitanism. Many people gathered in the hall, who wanted to understand the matter. Later somebody in a conference hall asked a question: “How come all the cosmopolitans are Jews?”, the lecturer answered something like this: “Because of the historical destiny of the Jews, they cannot love our motherland the way we love it”. Then Gofman, Hero of the Soviet Union, stood up and asked the lecturer “Where were you during the war?”. The lecturer: “I worked in Moscow, in the Central Committee administration”. – “Well, I did not get out of my plane during the entire war. So how can you tell me that you love the motherland more than I do?” The lecturer: “It is not my opinion, but the opinion of the Central Committee”. This incident has deeply carved into my soul. The next day when I came to the canteen, Hero of the Soviet Union Sivenko insulted me to my face: “You see, there weren’t any of them [of Jews] at the front, and look how many of them gathered here”. That was how I was gradually ripening.

Y: And how did you meet 1967? 

L: At that time, I was already demobilized from the army and worked in an R&D institute of the State Planning Committee of the Belorussian Republic (after the war I graduated a civil economy college in Minsk). After I heard of the results of the Six Day war, I was of course glad deep down inside. See, the Jews show the whole world how they can fight and defend their land.

Y: You mean the final insight came in ’70 after the Leningrad process? Did it not bother you that they actually wanted to hijack a plane?

L: I was called to the institute manager (I signed a letter in support of the defendants of the Leningrad and Kishinev trials), and in front of the Partbureau and of a KGB representative they told me: “It was brought to our attention that you have signed a letter that was broadcast on the Israeli enemy radio”, and I said, “Why do you ask me about this? What, is this forbidden?” They: “No, it is not forbidden, but how could you, a veteran Communist, do such a thing? This is what worries us”.

Two days later I was called to a Partbureau meeting, and later the people of Minsk spread the word about what I said at that meeting.

Y: It was 1970, your words are carried from mouth to ear… So you were already known in Minsk, and you knew many people yourself…

L: At work there were those who sympathized but none who could do anything. And I needed someone who would know where to begin – I surely didn’t. And once some friends told me they saw a person who could help me, a retired lieutenant colonel. And I asked them to pass on to him my phone numbers at home and at work, and to ask him to call me. And then one day the phone rang – Naum Olshanski. He was well informed. He started the whole thing. Although he soon received an exit permit and left. And Davidowitz and I were left by ourselves.

Y: He knew Davidowitz before you did?

L: No. Davidowitz was a striking personality. First, he was most talented. He began after we did, but already knew Hebrew very well. I was by that time already often visited [by foreigners]. And so one day I open the door and see a tall, handsome man standing at the entrance. “You’re Ovsisher? I want to talk with you.” That’s how we met. He was thrown out of the party for constantly writing letters to various authorities concerning anti-Semitism. To the CC and to Brezhnev too. He had been a commander of a tank regiment that had been stationed in Belarus.

Y: When did you meet each other?

L: Sometime about… ’73. It was about a year after I applied [for exit permit], and I applied sometime about January ’72.

Y: You applied with the whole family?

L.: Yes, with my wife, she totally supported me. She was registered as a Russian in her passport, she actually had Ukrainian – Belorussian roots, and she always supported me. “The things that you are doing are holy deeds” – this was her opinion concerning our struggle. One day she was summoned to the OVIR where a KGB representative had a chat with her. She: “You ask me, a Russian woman, why talented and committed people are leaving your country? I should ask you that question: How could you bring these people to such a state”. We didn’t fear the KGB so much any more, because all the things which we were telling them we were also writing in our letters. One day a Jew from USA calls me and says that he wants to meet with me but they won’t let him come to me. He asks whether I can meet him near the hotel, “of course” – I answer. We decided to meet by the statue. And so he comes out of the hotel and there are five operatives accompanying him. I tell them “Why are you embarrassing yourselves? All this will be described in the newspapers. Don’t you understand that you are embarrassing your country”. I and the rabbi talk for a while, and he explains to me in Yiddish that one of the operatives talks well in English and the other in Hebrew. Now I always needed translators, since the Americans’ Yiddish was always a bit lame. And then I tell the Gebeshnik [KGB person, slang]: “If you want, help me here with the translation, you can come to my apartment and translate. We have nothing to hide, everything’s open, and we aren’t engaged in any anti-Soviet activity. You are wasting your money on wiretapping up.” And he actually translated the English for me.

Y: What was the cause of Davidowitz’ death?

L: Before he died he had already had two heart attacks. For some time I even tried to convince him not to apply. After two heart attacks…

Y: He looked as a very strong person from the outside.

L: He really was a very strong and brave man… Olshanski was a bit provincial, ambitious, he liked to emphasize that it was he who started it all… but we didn’t pay attention to any of that. Olshanski was soon released, and right away they started a case against us… started summoning us… “Disseminating information slandering the Soviet social system…”

Y: You moved to Moscow at some point and were very active there as well…

L: When I was demoted to Private and deprived of my pension – which was what I made my living on, I was receiving 250 r. per month. I began trying to get it reinstated. I wrote to the minister of defense 3 times, I wrote to other authorities… all in vain. One day I was summoned and told “You can forget about reapplying till 1992. We will not be reviewing your case.” It was ’87 or ’88. And suddenly a rumor had spread out that a special commission was created to work on the refuseniks’ cases. I wrote to that commission, and later came to a meeting. I approach the guy on duty, who sat there behind the glass. I tell him of this and of that, I want to leave, deprived of pension. He tells me: “The commission is working, we’ll let you know.” I answer “I cannot wait. I am deprived of my only means of living”. “Concerning the pension, I can make you an appointment with a counsel”. So Tanya and I get to a meeting with counsel Kovaleva. She wrote to the Supreme Soviet, and later I was summoned by the deputy chairman of the Supreme Soviet Piskuliev. He was the chairman of the Supreme Soviet of Turkmenistan, and also you know that that all the chairmen of the republics were deputies of the USSR Supreme Soviet chairman. And he declared to me Presidium of the Supreme Soviet had reached a conclusion, that my demotion and the cancellation of my pension were illegal.

Y: And were you reinstated?

L: No…

Y: Were you granted permission [to leave]?

L: Later Kovaleva criticized me: “Why didn’t you consult me? You should have first got reinstated, you should’ve first gotten all the back money for the years without pension, and only then get the permit”. But when August 31, 1987 they phoned me from OVIR and told me that our documents were ready and that we could leave, and me and Tanya consulted each other – who knows what can happen in this Soviet Union, if you miss out now you can regret it for the rest of your days…

Y: You left USSR aged 57, already quite an old man. Do have any regrets for the wasted years?

L: There’s nothing to be sorry about. The only thing I am sorry for is that the Jews here can’t seem to agree amongst themselves.

Y: Do you feel good in Israel?

L: I feel OK.

Y: Do you feel that this is your home?

L: I am currently the chairman of the committee for the construction of Masha Bruskina’s statue. You probably know who she is? In October 1942, the first public execution in Minsk took place. Three people were executed, their photographs went all around the world. After the war they were declared heroes of the Belarus people. The names of the boys were known, and the girl was named an unknown hero. Later questions were popping up: “how come the KGB knows who the guards were, who the hangmen were, but doesn’t know who the girl was?” After they conducted an investigation they found out that she was a Jewish girl from some school and her name was Masha Bruskina.

Y: And what else do you do at your young age of 85, may God keep you till 120…

L: What have I done to you? [laughs] I am a member of the council of the “Aliyah” battalion. We regularly gather there and observe how they do their duties. I am also a respected citizen of Jerusalem.

Y: You used to be the chairman of the veteran council. Are you in contact with them today?

L: Not anymore. I receive a small handicapped pension and it suffices me for living. Today I lead mainly a retired, quiet life.

Y: Thank you, very much.